tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post156284828105124055..comments2024-03-28T09:38:52.661-04:00Comments on thwap's schoolyard: Mandatory Minimum Sentences, War Crimes, and stephen harperthwaphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-83096882578062821152010-01-21T14:33:55.542-05:002010-01-21T14:33:55.542-05:00Sweet. I guess that means I pretty much just took ...Sweet. I guess that means I pretty much just took ownership of this thread, doesn't it?<br /><br />Listen, if you don't want to continue here -- and the reasons for that are fairly evident -- may I suggest that you close the thread?Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04592482865332628189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-50771830384384910412010-01-21T11:12:50.205-05:002010-01-21T11:12:50.205-05:00I shan't be making any further replies to you ...I shan't be making any further replies to you in this comment section.thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-79520096241640597852010-01-21T00:37:24.828-05:002010-01-21T00:37:24.828-05:00If Harper didn't care that the Afghan detainee...If Harper didn't care that the Afghan detainees were being tortured, re-negotiating the prison transfer agreement is an awfully curious course of action, wouldn't you say?<br /><br />Any rational person would.<br /><br />So then, let's review: you admit that "turned them over <i>to be</i> tortured" isn't <i>really</i> a description of past events. "Turned them over <i>after which</i> they were tortured", sadly, still is.Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12268876306800933642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-62271857135788800142010-01-20T20:27:19.710-05:002010-01-20T20:27:19.710-05:00I said that I did not think that harper consciousl...I said that I did not think that harper consciously desired that these people be tortured. I said that he didn't care.<br /><br />"Turned them over to be tortured" is describing in the past-tense what happened to them.<br /><br />And at the end of the day, both the Liberals (stupidly) and the harpercons (insanely) handed people over to jailers about whom there were long-standing, credible fears that they practised torture systemically.<br /><br />Kindly leave all further correspondence in the more recent post please.thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-23929740266252227022010-01-20T15:25:43.691-05:002010-01-20T15:25:43.691-05:00So you claim to have evidence that it was Stephen ...So you claim to have evidence that it was Stephen Harper's <i>intention</i> to have prisoners tortured?<br /><br />Despite the fact that he had no part in negotiating the agreement that allowed that to happen?<br /><br />What evidence would this be? Where is it? <i>I</i> haven't seen it.Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04592482865332628189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-67111509310478228802010-01-20T15:18:02.931-05:002010-01-20T15:18:02.931-05:00I've already answered you shit-head.I've already answered you shit-head.thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-29970662581587256892010-01-20T12:36:21.872-05:002010-01-20T12:36:21.872-05:00"It is a war crime to not investigate torture..."<i>It is a war crime to not investigate torture allegations when you're responsible for the treatment of prisoners that you take.</i>"<br /><br />Then I'm sure you'll be relieved to hear that the Conservative government <i>did</i> in fact investigate these claims -- although they may have been slow to decide the claims were <i>credible</i>, due to Al Qaida and the Taliban's history of instructing their fighters to claim they were tortured even if they weren't -- and then negotiated a <i>brand new prison transfer agreement</i> that has since curtailed abuses of Afghan detainees.<br /><br />You say that "there's no way for [Harper] to win on this", despite the fact that now Canadian forces are now monitoring detainees, halting transfers when necessary, and taking detainees <i>back</i> when they've been abused -- all thanks to the agreement that the Harper government signed with Afghanistan.<br /><br />It's become fully evident that you have no intention of allowing the possibility of a Harper "victory" on this matter.<br /><br />The problem is that it becomes extremely clear that your argument is razor-thin as soon as some "pesky facts" are introduced into the matter.<br /><br />But, beyond that, let's get back to the matter at hand.<br /><br />Your claim in this blogpost was that Harper had turned detainees over to be tortured.<br /><br />As in turned detainees over <i>for the express purpose of</i> having them tortured.<br /><br />Do you have any kind of evidence that this was the Harper government's intent? Because their actions on this file clearly contract that.Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04592482865332628189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-84887846061575675032010-01-20T08:13:49.567-05:002010-01-20T08:13:49.567-05:00Patrick,
Sorry idiot. I wasn't paying attent...Patrick,<br /><br />Sorry idiot. I wasn't paying attention to comments sections.<br /><br />Here's the answer to your ignorant, stupid question: It is a war crime to not investigate torture allegations when you're responsible for the treatment of prisoners that you take.<br /><br />Got it?<br /><br />There's no way out for harper on this. Because harper continues to hand over our prisoners to the Afghan government in spite of all the credible warnings of prisoner mistreatment. <br /><br />To answer your specific question, did harper consciously desire that those people be tortured? I don't think so. I just think he didn't care what happened to him.<br /><br />Which is the whole attitude that's made this whole thing a debacle.thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-30038469130849429852010-01-19T23:30:21.331-05:002010-01-19T23:30:21.331-05:00Thwaaaaapsy...
Evidence? No?
Didn't think so...Thwaaaaapsy...<br /><br />Evidence? No?<br /><br />Didn't think so.Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12268876306800933642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-89472996020381045112010-01-19T14:11:59.548-05:002010-01-19T14:11:59.548-05:00So, let's take a closer look at your assertion...So, let's take a closer look at your assertions here, so we can reveal more fully the extent to which they're entirely faulty.<br /><br />You write:<br /><br />"<i>smoking a joint, taking bribes and turning people over to be tortured, are all against the law.</i>"<br /><br />All of these things <i>are</i> illegal. As it pertains to Stephen Harper, are any of them actually <i>true</i>?<br /><br />Well, let's take a look at the middle statement, seeing as how this is clearly the allegation you want to raise here. You want to suggest that Stephen Harper "turned people over to be tortured".<br /><br />"Turned people over <i>to</i> be tortured."<br /><br />As in, turning people over for the express purpose that they will be tortured.<br /><br />Do you have any evidence that would back up such a claim?Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04592482865332628189noreply@blogger.com