tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post3029547897179618342..comments2024-03-28T09:38:52.661-04:00Comments on thwap's schoolyard: The Fruits of Liberal Capitalist Democracythwaphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-46865471413106016982007-06-11T09:48:00.000-04:002007-06-11T09:48:00.000-04:00Scott,Thanks for the perceptive comment. Personal...Scott,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the perceptive comment. Personally, I think there's a lot of truth to the liberal celebration of the individual, and that liberalism is a fine base to build from.<BR/><BR/>But there is, as you state, the disconnect between those originally "inside" the liberal ideal (wealthy, eductated, white men) and those "outside" (women, the working class, non-white people living in the "periphery" of capitalist society), as well as refusal by liberals to account for the inevitablity of rhetoric being compromised by the realities of capitalist existence.thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-77843677864315165222007-06-09T21:53:00.000-04:002007-06-09T21:53:00.000-04:00Another important aspect to consider in understand...Another important aspect to consider in understanding skepticism that people outside of the most powerful countries might have about liberal-democratic institutions as being inherently the "best" way to express human desires for justice and liberation is the hypocrisy that both liberalism and capitalism have always exhibited in terms of discrepancies in treatment for those "inside" versus those "outside" the system. <BR/><BR/>For instance, capitalism has always depended not only on market relations but also on what Marx called "primitive accumulation." Marx didn't recognize this, I don't think, but more recent thinkers have pointed out that accumulation by plunder and force was not just a feature of the original class struggles that reorganized social relations to a capitalist form but it happens all the time now, too. One Marxist understanding of neoliberalism is as a process by which spheres of life previously beyond the reach of capitalism could now be plundered. Other analysts have pointed to massive socially preventable destruction like war and like disasters that are ostensibly natural but whose effects have been co-produced by social relations (a la hurricane Katrina) which result in preventable suffering and destruction that reenters economic life primarily as new opportunities for capital accumulation.<BR/><BR/>And political liberalism was founded on a double standard between those subjects it considered to be human and those it did not -- under some of the earlier formulations even working-class European men didn't count as human. Feminist theorists have outlined in detail how the liberal-democratic abstract category of "citizen" has always been and continues to be gendered male. And why on earth would people whose ancestors were being enslaved, colonized, and subjected to genocidal practices in the era when the great voices of classical liberalism were spouting off about liberty and human dignity and whatever else <EM>not</EM> be a bit skeptical about the sincerity of those claims?Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-14199255606838161952007-06-09T19:16:00.000-04:002007-06-09T19:16:00.000-04:00I don't get your point, or your argument.You find ...I don't get your point, or your argument.<BR/><BR/>You find one person, one critic of Israel who is also anti-Semetic, and somehow this discredits the entire left?<BR/><BR/>My post was about how neo-liberalism <I>inevitably</I> discredits democracy, because it is an inhuman system.<BR/><BR/>And, yes Wayne, I'm afraid it's true. The express uk writer <I>is</I> a witless clown, because his broad generalizations are without merit.<BR/><BR/>Or are you going to tell me that ALL criticism of Israel is based on racism, and that Israel can do nothing wrong?thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-43016523937176298922007-06-09T15:49:00.000-04:002007-06-09T15:49:00.000-04:00"damned well that your right-wing friends" radical..."damned well that your right-wing friends" radical right-wing friends.<BR/><BR/>"My original post referred to how Western liberal-capitalist democracy fails by its own standards and thereby discredits democracy in general." I agree with your post, that can happen.<BR/><BR/>But the far-left, and far-right get away with all sorts of racist crap, and flush their values.<BR/><BR/>I just thought I would through this out for you.<BR/><BR/>I would not call the writer a witless clown however, reality is reality.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03314603669176202647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-60386717905893734092007-06-09T15:18:00.000-04:002007-06-09T15:18:00.000-04:00Wayne,Thanks for bringing such a stupid piece of s...Wayne,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for bringing such a stupid piece of shit to my attention. Yes, indeedy, that National Union of Journalists woman said something nasty.<BR/><BR/>And you know damned well that your right-wing friends have all sorts of nasty things to say about Arabs and Muslims. And they get to disguise their bigotry behind their purported support for Israel.<BR/><BR/>But what you're trying to show isn't leftists discrediting anti-racism, but leftist hypocrisy on anti-racism.<BR/><BR/>My original post referred to how Western liberal-capitalist democracy fails by its own standards and thereby discredits democracy in general.<BR/><BR/>All your link showed me was some witless clown trying to blanket all condemnation of Israel's appalling treatment of the Palestinians as being motivated by "anti-Semetism" at heart. Which is both inaccurate and stupid.thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-45882147014810445072007-06-09T15:09:00.000-04:002007-06-09T15:09:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03314603669176202647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2022452485619502579.post-16228696288445445552007-06-09T15:08:00.000-04:002007-06-09T15:08:00.000-04:00How leftys dicredit their values.http://www.expres...How leftys dicredit their values.<BR/><BR/>http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/8463/Leo+McKinstryAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03314603669176202647noreply@blogger.com