"roundhead's" exact term was "accused terrorists" but since this would mean that "roundhead" is only condemning concern for due legal process and that we not beat our prisoners and turn them over to be tortured, I'm reasonably certain that "roundhead" meant actual terrorists.
I asked "roundhead" to prove it, and, like the knuckle-dragging imbeciles at sda, the intellectual coward at "a turn to the right," and my recent visitor "breath of fresh air," this "roundhead" character is good at spewing out empty assertions, but not so good at sustained discussion.
A familiar discussion participant to me, one "Reason,"* decided to take up the challenge though. The exchange is here.
What I'd like to do is take apart "Reason's" last round of self-righteous hyperventilating on my blog, since I don't want to presume that I can make "pogge" a site for my pissing contests.
Of course you are done here thwap. It is a subject you have zero depth of knowledge in,
An empty assertion, nothing more. I can type words to that effect about you easily enough:
Reason, you know absolutely nothing about this subject.
See how easy it is? Let's continue.
and failed utterly to comment on the fact that roundhead's comments had merit.
Well, that wasn't my intention, to comment on the fact that "roundhead's" meritless assertion had merit. Like you, and the right-wing in general, you imagine that simply saying something makes it true. I'm sick and tired of accomodating this bullshit. Especially since the consequences of you lame-brains putting your "thoughts" into action have been so murderously disastrous for so many innocent people.
Simply dismissing fact that does not appeal to you does not make said fact go away.
[sarcasm]Tell me about it.[/sarcasm]
Sorry, but I am thuggish in response to the way you and others have treated me in the past,
Actually, the thuggery that I was referring to is your apparent blindness to the dangers of arbitrary justice and the abuse, torture, and killing of prisoners. These are the issues that the Left is concerned about, and to which you and your ideological soulmates are so indifferent. Without our [I mean decent people, not right-wing asshats] oversight, Western society would turn into more of a sewer of cruelty and injustice than it already is. That's what I was referring to when I said "thuggish."
Regarding my treatment of you in the past, I've got an idea: Why don't you fucking go back to those old babble threads and actually READ what I said to you?? I disagreed with you on many things but I was never unfair to you. I mentioned that I thought you had anger-management problems because I honestly do think that. No, I wasn't nice to you, but I never called you a baby-killer, or an ignorant stooge, or anything like the insults you love to send my way and which I am now returning in kind.
I'll admit that many people on babble were unfair to you. And that many on the Left are unfair to soldiers of any sort. But that wasn't me, and I don't think it's too much to fucking ask that you learn to differentiate between people. And, as I recall, you would ascend to a towering rage quite quickly after receiving a contrary opinion, fair or not.
and I care not wit if I insult you your or harm your sensibilities...
I can honestly live with that. I don't care a whit about your opinion of me. What I do care about is you and your brethen's annoying habit of setting the parameters of the debate merely by saying whatever stupid thing some cynical manipulator has conditioned you to say. Slandering opponents of the war as universally gleeful at the deaths of Canadian soldiers, universally blind to the crimes of Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and their ilk. Because we don't cry out for the destruction of our civil liberties in response to non-existent threats, we're "soft on terrorism."
Fuck that, and to hell with you and people like you daring to lecture us about facts and arguments. The debacles that have been made of every major initiative you attempted ought to be proof enough that you have no credibility.
In point of fact, I intend to shock you back into critical thinking, instead of the sheepish nonesense you currently engage in.
Well, as you can probably tell by now, I find your presumption laughable. "Critical thinking" 'eh? How about this?
You and your team have had FIVE FUCKING YEARS to meet the VERY LOW expectations of the poor people of Afghanistan, and instead of doing that, 5 years later the Taliban is growing in popularity. The former Northern Alliance warlords who rule most of the country are brutes. Karzai's government is incompetent and brutal. NATO forces are trigger-happy and callous. Both the Afghan government and US forces torture innocent people, sometimes to death. Our anti-narcotics policies there were constructed with absolutely no thought to the alternatives that would be needed to keep poppy farmers from starving to DEATH. The foreign aid that got to Afghanistan was many only a fraction of what was so casually promised, and much of it leached right back out in the pockets of profiteering foreign contractors.
For these reasons, I am "critical" when I "think" about Canada in Afghanistan.
But you, dog-shit for brains, you think that some feel-good stories about building a school out of concrete blocks, or handing out a $50 bag of candy, or training judges who won't get paid and who will be shot if they ever honestly apply the principles we teach, or training police officers to be as brutal and incompetent and corrupt as the ones we trained (and are training) in Haiti, ... you think this is something worth fighting and killing for. You have faith in this mission?
We could have had a polite discussion about genuine accomplishments of the CF in Afghanistan, what with my "critical thinking" and your intimate familiarity of the subject. We could have had something besides talking past one another, but you and "roundhead" are more interested in slandering Jack Layton and the Left in general, ... you're more interested in calling us cowards, traitors, morons, etc., etc., .... well to fuck with politeness now. I'm pretty sure that all you'd have to offer are meaningless anecdotes, useless generalities, and wooden government propaganda. It's up to you to respond to my criticisms, based on documented facts, rather than it being my part to defend myself against your stupid personal attacks.
Let me know when you are done opinioning on other's thoughts (as you like to do),
I don't know what "opinioning" means, but I assume you want me to think for myself. I've been doing that for a long time now, asshole, ... how about you?
and instead would care to actually engage in serious discussion...
Aha-ha-ha!!! Well, seriously, the floor is yours ...
Of course, this is one of the reason why I was not welcome around you in the past... Despite being on discussion boards, that is exactly what you do not want.
Oh, and for the record, I am a Canadian soldier, as you may remember for our dealings on that den of idiots at babble...
Yeah, I remembered that. I just figured as long as you were tossing out hurtful accusations, I'd join in the fun. Get the point??
Posted by: Reason at March 23, 2007 07:53
Further, I am currently in Afghanistan. So it would seem that mine is one of the lives on the line for this mission. It would seem that my attitude towards the mission has not changed for all the dodging of IEDs and such. Nor has my disdain for ignorants such as yourself.
Let me close with this: One of the last times we communicated on babble, perhaps the very last time, was in a thread where some posters were being stupid about a Canadian soldier dying. I said that I would not engage in such shameful behaviour and that until there was evidence to the contrary I would assume that a Canadian soldier was just doing his or her job, and that maybe he or she actually thought they were trying to do good in the world. You were on that thread and you responded by saying that you liked me after that. It wasn't my intention to make you like me, since I'm pretty sure that I don't like you. But as a citizen, as a debator, I strive to be honest, fair, and open-minded. And I don't see that very much at all on the side of the poltiical spectrum that you seem to find most of your allies.
And I think the speed with which you decided that you liked me, and the ease with which you forgot that you liked me when we next met at sda is testimony to your underlying childishness. You become infuriated when you read something you don't like and you respond with barely suppressed rage and more importantly you toss "Reason" out the window.
But regarding what some on the Left think of soldiers, ... you can't really deny that many on the Right like to slander us as anti-semites, cowards, traitors, lovers of Saddam Hussein, ... and on and on, .... as scum basically. Well, if you guys can jump to conclusions, and if you guys can support governments that lie, steal, torture, and kill, then maybe it isn't so far off the wall for some on the Left to tar all soldiers with the same brush they use on absolute vermin like bush II or Stephen Harper. We don't have a monopoly on being unfair. Far from it.
Oh, and spare me the bullshit about all our freedoms coming from soldiers. More often than not it was soldiers suppressing the path to democracy and human rights, not fighting for it. This doesn't even require elaboration.
If you want to start over with me, I'm prepared to do that. Once again, the floor is yours.
*"Reason" used to post frequently at rabble.ca/babble, along with another CF member "Webgear." As I said above in my reply, he and I didn't usually get along, but I think an honest reading of our exchanges would show that I was always fair to him. He showed up with another moniker (which escapes me at present) at KKKate's site, where he misrepresented me and left off by calling me a "nauseating little troll." Somewhere within my words, "Reason" got it into his head that I was claiming that Native protestors at Oka and Caledonia were peaceful. I did not do that. Anyone who wants to look (unless the Kowardly KKKate has deleted the posts) can go find a thread called "The Flags of Caledonia" or something similar, and see for themselves.