Friday, April 24, 2009

On Comparing Canada and Iran

In Tuesday's post about how most all the representative of all the states in the United Nations are hypocritical scum-bags, I made reference to the Iranian regime's rape, torture and murder of Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi, and how the Iranian government refused to allow justice to be done. Basically, the Iranian government had Ms. Kazemi arrested for photographing a protest and three weeks later she was dead. At first the Iranian government said she had suffered a stroke during her interrogation, but then it charged a guard with "accidentally" striking the back of her head. Much later, the coroner who examined her was able to flee to Canada where he said the Ms. Kazemi had been the victim of cruel and sustained torture. When the Canadian government demanded answers on these charges the Iranian government simply ignored us.

This morning, for some reason, the case of the RCMP's killing of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski came into my mind as being similar to the Iranian prison system's treatment of Zahra Kazemi. In both cases we have security forces being responsible for the death of an innocent person and in both cases we have official protection for the killers. In both cases we have official stories widely at variance with the evidence. In both cases there appears to be a culture of impunity as politicians and bureaucrats tell the most brazen lies and work to ensure that nothing is done.

What are the differences? There are some important ones. Ms. Kazemi was arrested for documenting a political protest which might be held to threaten the powerful in Iran. Mr. Dziekanski was killed because some lazy bullies wanted to quickly incapacitate a man who was causing a public disturbance. The source of his causing that disturbance was his frustration at the incredibly stupid behaviour of everyone at the Vancouver airport. A more precise parallel for Ms. Kazemi's being targetted would be the protestors who were assaulted at Vancouver's APEC Summit or the police brutality against anti-Harris protestors in Ontario.

Another difference is that Mr. Dziekanski was not subjected to the same level of prolonged sadism that Ms. Kazemi suffered. Again, a big part of that was that Dziekanski's killers were simply lazy bullies with no regard for the rights of other human beings but who had no real animosities towards him. Ms. Kazemi's murderers were professional sadists, employed for a brutal, misogynist, theocratic (obscurantist) regime who probably hate and fear everyone who protest against them, especially women. But there's something else here; Canada is not Iran and state officials could not get away with treating a Canadian citizen the same way that Iran treated Kazemi (who was also Iranian).

The reason that (say) the RCMP cannot get away with such behaviour has more to do with public oversight and the rule of law than it has to do with the inherent humanity and decency of the RCMP. From watching the Braidwood Inquiry we see that these goons and the institution that they belong to and the state which it serves are all more than happy to insult the intelligence of the entire country with the most stupid lies, in some twisted attempt to "tough it out" and hope that they can get through this Kabuki theatre piece with their careers intact. It will be a very dangerous thing for this country if these idiots succeed in their quest though. Because if they see that they can kill with impunity, what will stop them from descending into the same depths of depravity as the Iranian government? Their inherent humanity and respect for human rights? Please. We've already seen that they don't give a damn for those things. The absence of sadistic tendencies? Not likely. The men who order the torture are generally not sadists themselves. Very often, torturers are not sadists. Sadists can lose control and kill their victims. Institutions that torture will attract brainless, amoral thugs and goons, to whom the brutalization of another human being is about as consequential as a night at home channel-surfing.

For no apparent reason I'm starting another paragraph. Finally, the political and social climate of Canada will begin to transform into that of Iran if the RCMP gets away with this. What keeps the Iranian regime solvent? Hatred and fear. Hatred of people who step out of line. Hatred of people who don't conform to the most "conservative" standards of their society. Hatred of "traitors" who protest against the government while the country is surrounded on all sides by ruthless, vicious enemies. Hatred of those who would "abuse" their rights in order to "attack" the society that raised them. All those hatreds are felt by a sizeable minority in every country. In the USA it was the 30% that supported bush II through all his crimes and blundering. In Canada its the "small dead animals," "Free Dominion," "dust my broom" crowd and the much larger group of mindless, deluded harpercon voters. For everyone else, there's fear. Fear of poverty. Fear of prison. Fear of torture. Fear of death. Fear of the unaccountable goons who roam about enforcing compliance to a hateful, failed system. As the system fails it becomes more paranoid, more violent.

Bah! Suffice it to say that there have to be consequences for the killing of Robert Dziekanski. Our country and our way of life depends upon it.

ETA: Somehow this post got linked to at KKKate MakkkMillan's "smalldeadanimals." Here's a belated treat for anyone who gets here from there, ... links to earlier posts wherein I commented on the gigantic levels of stupidity on display at SDA and elsewhere:

SDA'rs belittling the deaths in Afghanistan I & II

SDA'rs yapping about imaginary insults to the idiotic John McCain

SDA'rs inability to argue sensibly about anything.

The stunningy hypocrisy at "Dust My Broom"

32 comments:

Todd said...

Thwap said:

"The reason that (say) the RCMP cannot get away with such behaviour has more to do with public oversight and the rule of law"

and

"what will stop them from descending into the same depths of depravity as the Iranian government?"

C'mon, Thwap: you really believe there's a _tremendous_ gulf between our security forces and theirs? They're only a few steps ahead of us down to Hell. And that's only because we haven't had the "privilege" of being ruled over by richer countries' yes-men and then have been continuously threatened by our former masters because we went and did something about it. Like it or not, Iran is as much a law-abiding country as Canada or the US (whether there's a form of oversight on security forces there and how effective it is, considering how cops usually deal with oversight commitees, I don't know).

thwap said...

I believe that the gulf is as big as I described it.

I agree that we're only a few steps up, but I think they're BIG steps. Though once one starts falling they pass soon enough.

Yes, they're a poorer country, under siege, but there are also some very real democratic traditions that we've managed to win from our heritage, ... traditions denied to the Iranians by the very same Anglo-Americans who did get to exercise them.

(There's a book by a Maoist, ... "Global Rift" ... the third world takes [something] ... dude's name begins with an S and ends with a Y or an I.

Anyhow, he mentions an American dude who advised the Iranians in the early 20th century, ... the British got rid of him because he was advising them to resist the Brits and all the Western imperialists. Interesting story.

Anonymous said...

What foolishness. Comparing Iran and Canada all because some cops tasered someone in Vancouver.

Listen fools, there is NO connection between Iran and Canada. Visit Iran and see for yourselves.

Ian Vaughan said...

Thwap,

Before you jump to any conclusions, read F.A. Hayek's 'The road to Serfdom'. You can get it from Amazon for under $20.

I belong to a political party that, amongst other things, wants to legalize marijuana, expand secondary education with lower tuition fees, make referendums a regular part of the governing process, AND moving to a Provincial police force supported by small local police units that are responsive to local politicians.

What you probably haven't figured out yet is I'm a Reform BC Candidate, and until you started the new paragraph, sounded eerily like the thoughts behind my talking points in the campaign.

I have been fighting RCMP thinking since leaving them in 1968.

Ian Vaughan

thwap said...

"Anonymous II"

Thanks for stating your opinion. Obviously I disagree.

Actually, it's not that they tasered a guy. They tasered a guy for no reason, killed him, lied about it, and are still lying and might get away with it.

Bit different.

Mr Vaughn,

i've read that book. I think it's kinda simplistic.

If you have a blog i'd like to check it out. Sounds like it might be interesting.

Anonymous said...

What you describe and rail against is 'statism'. That is a hobby horse of the far left and fascist governments where they exist. The urge to have conformity is a collectivist view. That is far left.

The police state of Nazi Germany came from the statist desire for control and conformity. Hitlers socialist party wanted everyone to be an obedient Arian.

The conformity in the former Soviet Union and of China and North Korea are all of the Statist variety that comes from far left collectivist thinking.

That is what Obama is working toward in the USA.

Only individualism and free enterprise can protect us from this sort of hell.

That is the what SDA and the other blogs you mention are working for. More freedom and self-reliance, more individuality in our society.

You must not being actually reading those blogs, but insist you understand their nature. That is what millions of uninformed Americans do to Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

You are confused and do not understand whose who and what's what on planet earth at this time.

Please do some reading and education yourself. Your teachers and university profs were lying to you.

Learn the meaning of freedom and forget about the false security of the entitlement culture.

Andrew said...

Exactly what "Hello Birdy" said.

Anonymous said...

wow, you're retarded.

Anonymous said...

Hello birdy said it all.

Todd said...

Thawap said:

"but there are also some very real democratic traditions that we've managed to win from our heritage"

"Democratic traditions"? Isn't your post concerned about legal restraints on state security forces vs. individual safety? That and democracy are loosely related, granted, but still two different things (I'm thinking of classical Athens and post-Restoration Parliament in England clear up to the early 20th century: both democratic but not really interested in "rights of persons" as such).

But getting back to my point, while those traditions and legal restraints on the State are there, valid, and serve as markers of progress, what makes you think that the Canadian state can't or hasn't cladestinely ignored them or fashioned such laws in a way that renders oversight toothless? The killing or murder of civilians by state security forces has the same "salutary" effect for the ruling class: see what happens if you try to buck or question the system "too much"?

Iran is hardly some model to follow just because it's more open about giving even less of a damn than Canada does, but it's not much worse either.

Apropos of the sudden smell around here, does your blog always get such a large number of right-wing pinheads, Thwap? Didn't see such a herd around here before, last few times I read . . . .

thwap said...

Todd,

No idea what caused that. I did leave a snarky comment on "Dust My Broom" recently.

I really got a kick out of the prankster who said I should give the intellectuals at SDA more respect!

I can't reply adequately to your weightier contributions at present.

Todd said...

Oh! Take your time . . . .

Another Sean said...

thwap,
You've reached the "big time". This post has been linked by the 4-time winner of the Best Canadian Blog and 2009 Best Conservative blog. You've been "sda-lanched".
Of course, now that we've visited, all we can say is that there's nothing intelligent to see here. But hey, thanks for the unintended chuckles.

Agent Smith said...

Yo homs - zackly what Hello Birdy said

Philanthropist said...

This is satire right?

Anonymous said...

I will be brief and to the point here. If you think there is ANY resemblance between Canada and Iran or any other country over there I would like to know what bloody planet you are from.

syncrodox said...

Thwap

The insipidities you have elucidated are to be honored.

Absolute asininity is a skill.

Syncro

TeeJay said...

As the Talmud states: 'We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are."

I popped in via SDA, and found a mental vacuum, with only Thwap's projection system running, on empty.

I visited twice tonight..my First, and Last time...

mitchshrader said...

the outrage is appropriate, if in fact not entirely professionally presented.

might be, from my perspective, that canadians have less experience with casual institutional tyranny than do americans, a blessing indeed.

that would be plenty to blame lack of vicious pointed satirical diatribes on, and explain the rather intellectual dispassion unfamiliar to the pit bull dialogues (monologues?) more familiar to your southern neighbors.

i'm sort of in favor of personal liberty, freedom, small government and hard currency, which includes low taxes, minimal entitlements, the right to smoke pot or own guns UNTIL HARM TO SOCIETY IS DEMONSTRATED IN COURT.. (i'm not stupid, but freedom & liberty deserve at least ONE chance per individual, at the absolute minimum)..

i'm not sure if we'd have more arguements than agreements, working down a list of relevant issues.

Killing folks for little cause, lying about it to protect a position of power and a paycheck.. is wrong.

No matter if the victim is Middle Eastern, Southern Black, or Polish Canadian.. casual institutional murder is WRONG.

And it's not relevant who did it, or how callous it was, or how common it was.

If it occurred, punish the criminals appropriately.

Rope seems to work once and for all.

thwap said...

mitchshrader,

I'm not sure which end of the political spectrum you're from, but thanks for stating the foundations of my argument that all the mouthbreathers and pompous asses from SDA totally, utterly and completely failed to address.

Perhaps because they're the futile dumbasses that I've always said they were.

Todd said...

Mm-mmm. It's feeding time at the zoo . . . .

(Mitch writes like a libertarian from his interest in hard currency, but I'll guess he's something of a moderate as he seems to acknowledge society as such.)

thwap said...

Yeah,

As I understand it, they read about 2 examples of state violence.

1 place where a journalist can be tortured and killed with only token penalities for her murderers. That place is a theocratic dictatorship.

Another place is where 4 police needlessly taser a man, constrict his breathing, refuse to assist the medical responders, allow him to die, lie about what they did, and continue lying during a public inquiry. No charges against these lying killers were laid and it looks like there won't be any charges after this toothless inquiry.

The self-described champions of freedom from SDA see nothing ominous in agents of the Canadian state being allowed to kill with impunity. They don't see the slippery slope to dictatorship.

It boggles the mind.

Todd said...

Thwap said:

"That place is a theocratic dictatorship."

Um, Iran does have elections for the highest levels of political office (which have to take into account the quasi-elected "clerics" who have their say into matters, mind). If it's a dictatorship of anything, it's a dictatorship of the nationalist bourgeois aided and abetted by conservative religious figures.

(Kind of like what the US marginally was for a time and what Canada might turn into.)

"They don't see the slippery slope to dictatorship."

The bourgeois don't need a political dictatorship at this point; however, it's possible (and, given coming bad times of unrest, more than likely) to have an authoritarian democracy.

rabbit said...

What keeps the Iranian regime solvent? Hatred and fear. So, Thwap, you thought you would help the situation along by generating hatred and fear of people on the political right? Your demonization of Canadian conservatives is fantastically and ridiculoulsy over the top.

ScottINRMH said...

It's not that us SDA'ers hate you, it's more that we just kind of feel sorry for you. You're the one demonstrating the hate here buddy!

thwap said...

Todd,

I've been unforgivably sloppy both in writing this thing and responding to you. I'm actually swamped with work and I pop in for five or ten minutes every hour or so. You're right, democracy wasn't the right term for respect for the person and Iran isn't a dictatorship.

Do you have a blog?

rabbit,

If you take the trouble to read any of my diatribes and actually critique them, rather than merely whining that I'm unfair, hateful, etc., I'll take the trouble to defend myself.

ScottINRMH,

More empty words. Meaningless to me.

Todd said...

Thwap said:

"I've been unforgivably sloppy both in writing this thing and responding to you."

No, no. When/if you can: RL comes first. No worries.

"Do you have a blog?"

No, I've got enough on my plate.

If you'd prefer, I'll send you my e-mail address.

(Had to laugh at your latest addition to your entry; go get 'em.)

rabbit said...

Do you know what I find most ludicrous about political blogs? How many of them seem convinced that the other side are a bunch of lying hate mongers.

I don't know if the web encourages this attitude, or simply reveals it. Perhaps both.

What is the cause of this dementia? Probably a mixture of the impersonnel nature of the web plus good ole' "us against them" tribalism.

thwap said...

rabbit,

All-ritey then.

Todd said...

rabbit asked:

"What is the cause of this dementia?"

Can't be ignorance or calculation, can it? Or that there really are lying hate-mongers out there, right?

Seriously, Woundwort, if you keep posting vapid stuff about tribalism, you're not going to be taken seriously.

Got an argument to make, do it; otherwise, fuck off.

Lindsay Stewart said...

This heaping steamer is what the shortbus daytrippers from SDA are lining up behind! No wonder you echoing nincompoops are so widely reviled for your lack of depth.

"Hello Birdy said...
What you describe and rail against is 'statism'. That is a hobby horse of the far left and fascist governments where they exist. The urge to have conformity is a collectivist view. That is far left."

Actually if you were to read a little more carefully Birdbrain, Thwap is railing against officers of the state committing crimes against individuals and the mechanisms of the state covering up those crimes. By pretty much any metric, Iran would have to be considered a pretty conservative state, certainly socially if not economically.

"The police state of Nazi Germany came from the statist desire for control and conformity. Hitlers(sic) socialist(sic) party wanted everyone to be an obedient Arian(sic).

The National Socialist party or Nazis, were a far right fascist party. The very basic political tenets of fascism blame liberal democracies for the creation of class conflicts and blames communism for the exploitation of same. Look up the "March to Berlin" noted as an effort to topple the "Marxist" government of the day. The Nazis were anything but left leaning, they were much closer to your team, complete with racial/religious bigotry.

"The conformity in the former Soviet Union and of China and North Korea are all of the Statist variety that comes from far left collectivist thinking."

Yes conformity is bad. That's why the left is against individualism and self determination. No hippies, no artsies, no queers, no non-christian religions, no swarthy folk, no immigrants from non western European nations... wait a sec.... my mistake, its the right side of the political spectrum that's against conformity provided you're a white, western, christian male.

"That is what Obama is working toward in the USA."

Check. Soon everyone in Murka will have to be browner than they are today. God forbid he roll back the advancements made by wee Georgie, none of that nasty habeas corpus or rule of law stuff to get in the way of executive authority. Do you dimbulbs even read the crap you write?

"Only individualism and free enterprise can protect us from this sort of hell."

Please Birdie do us all a favour and go Galt. You'll supply valuable nutrients to the bugs. The deregulation of "enterprise" is what chucked the economies of the world into the mess we're facing. Chalk up another victory for the sages from the right.

"That is the what SDA and the other blogs you mention are working for. More freedom and self-reliance, more individuality in our society."

That is unless you're not a straight, white, christian male of western European extraction. Other than that... go freedom and individuality. Face it, the freedom you hanker after is the freedom to be a hateful, dimwitted bigot. A freedom that obviously neither education nor socialization have kept you from.

"You must not being actually reading those blogs, but insist you understand their nature. That is what millions of uninformed Americans do to Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly."

Uh huh. Poor Loimbaugh the junkie sex tourist, so misunderstood. And Mr O'Reilly the workplace sexual harasser, just another misunderstood innocent. Birdie, loosen the straps on your CCm helmet and stop nodding your head in the corner. Limbaugh has stated publicly that he wants the president and thus America to fail as some sort of vindication of his far right screed. He is a treasonous fat arsed, junkie perv. Your team, not ours.

"You are confused and do not understand whose(sic) who and what's what on planet earth at this time."

Hmm, let's just guess... kaff kaff mooozlims is teh evil. And you'll be able to prove it as soon as the heroes of goodness find those pesky WMDs.

"Please do some reading and education(sic) yourself. Your teachers and university profs were lying to you."

Oh yes, please do education yourself. Tard.

"Learn the meaning of freedom and forget about the false security of the entitlement culture."

I am busy exercising the freedom to scoff at your value free platitudes and meaningless talking points. Thanks for educationing us though, very helpful indeed.

thwap said...

Nice to see you here PSA!

I didn't find Birdy's screed helpful either. (Though a lot of his friends did!)

The idea that deregulation of everything is the answer, ... and that public healthcare is Stalinism, ... that Rush Limbaugh is a poor misunderstood saint, along with Bill (white, male, Christian power-structure) O'Reilly (the predator) is a genius.

Besides, nothing from "Birdy's" robo-call comment really had much to do with what I actually said.