Wednesday, December 7, 2011

The First Nations Unwilling to Tolerate harper's Bullshit

Yesterday I wrote:
harper is driving the First Nations peoples into a major confrontation and it would behoove all of us non-scum, non-harpercon Canadians to prepare ourselves to support them.
Today, the CBC reported:
A regional chief who represents Attawapiskat says that a number of his counterparts in other First Nations are prepared to engage in civil disobedience over Ottawa's handling of a housing crisis in the northern Ontario community.

"There's people who are ready to stand up and be counted... to stand up and do civil disobedience so that we are heard," Stan Louttit told Evan Solomon on CBC-TV's Power & Politics.

"If the minister does not want to work with us, you may see that sooner than later," said Louttit, who presides over the Mushkegowuk Council, which represents Attawapiskat and six other First Nations.

Here's the thing: harper is used to getting his way. Shitting all over our democracy by lying to Parliament, withholding information, proroguing at will. He's benefited from the apathy and ignorance of the majority of Canadians and especially from the pathetic cowardice, impotence and corruption of his parliamentary opposition. But the First Nations are NOT ignorant about how badly they're being abused by the settler society. And they are NOT apathetic in the face of blatant oppression.

This is where the irresistible force meets the immovable object. And the tragedy is that the First Nations, as a people, do not like conflict. They do not want to put their bodies on the line against the police. They do not want to be surrounded and starved and sent to prison. But occasionally the blatant cruelty and criminality of Canadian federal or provincial governments forces their hand. harper's attempt to completely destroy their sovereignty is one of the biggest assaults in a long time.

These are desperately poor people. One time, reading one of Owen Gray's posts, the heroism against all odds that the First Nations have displayed from time to time really hit home to me. harper has pushed their backs to the wall but he is going to encounter something he's not used to seeing: principled and determined opposition.

If harper doesn't back down soon, he will find he's started a firestorm and, hopefully the First Nations will find allies in the wider society. Those of us sick to death of the racist drivel, the self-pitying, hypocritical whining of assholes like the small dead brain-cells crowd. I'm sick to death of those morons having any sort of influence in government policy. I have no further patience to indulge them in their ignorant ravings. Let the Kanadian Konservative Klan be harper's allies, and let the Canadian activist left stand by the First Nations in their struggle for their rights and their dignity as a people.

ETA: The First Nations will be the most effective of harper's opponents not only because their backs are up against the wall, but also because they have no misplaced respect for Canadian institutions and rules. The system has been set up against them, to destroy them as a people. Whereas I am someone who would like to respect our institutions and have Canada live our supposed collective values, the First Nations are a separate people for whom "Canada" has obligations towards. stephen harper on the other hand, is a Canadian who hates Canada and Canadian values. He despises our institutions and our rules, but unlike the First Nations, he incoherently demands respect for his control over them. I think he's about to have his sorry ass handed to him.


Anonymous said...

Don't bet on it.

thwap said...

Why not?

900ft Jesus said...

I think you're right, thwap. Not sure how successful they'll be, but your analysis is right on, I believe. They can't afford to back down on this. They know the only place they can back up is into oblivion because that opens the door for harper to take away any self-rule they have.

Like you point out, there's the psychology of a people who have no reason to trust or respect the present system, and they are desperately fighting to hold onto and strengthen their dignity, their identity as distinct people.

And their physical situation is beyond desperate.

They won't be marching alone, either.

thwap said...

900 ft Jesus,

That's our take on it anyway. I can't see any other way out of this.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure we can always cast Aboriginal Peoples as victims. I worked with a number of students in First Nations communities who went on to pursue college, university or a trade.

thwap said...


Why do you write stuff like that? It would be unfair of me to accuse you of calling all the people at Attawapiskat lazy losers wouldn't it?

So where do you see that I've said that there are no FN success stories, or that every single FN individual is an innocent angel who has never done anything wrong and all their problems are the fault of the settler society?

The people of Attawapiskat are the victims of a SYSTEM though. To deny this systemic racism is to have one's head in the sand.

All you have to do is read the work of Tom Flanagan to see that harper's bigger goal is to eliminate the separate status of the FN.

karen said...

Near as I can see, the First Nations persons I know who have "gone on to pursue college, university, or a trade" have done so in spite of the very real barriers put up for First Nations. I think you are right though, Thwap, I think the first wave of making this a decent country FOR ALL OF US will come from the First Nations. They have really been pushed to where they have nothing to lose. People like me who still have a job and a home and enough to eat, too many of us will put up with the status quo for a while longer. This is the reason I thing Occupy did not get bigger. There are still to many comfortable people in North America. Sad thing is when it gets uncomfortable for enough of us, if not too late, its gonna be damned hard to fight back.

I'm going to the nearest band council office today to ask how I can support them.

thwap said...


I agree entirely. To a great degree this system delivers the goods for people. It's at the cost of imperialism (political, economic, ecological, cultural, etc.,)worldwide and the system is failing even on its own terms more and more.

The majority of the workforce had jobs in North America during the Great Depression. That didn't stop the Great Depression from being a calamity that brought about the rise of Hitler among other things.

So, sometimes, it seems like maybe "the worse the better" to shake people out of their apathy, but worsening conditions can make people ugly.

There are no easy answers. That's why moral principles are so important.

Anonymous said...

To me this whole mess characterizes FN people as victims. This story has been all over the news for the past God knows how long. I get frustrated with all the media coverage and commentary on this issue which generally paints all FN in very broad strokes.

Believe me I know the racism these people face. I dealt with it day in and day out for a decade.

thwap said...

I'll bit WWU. How would YOU characterize the FN at Attawapiskat (at least within the context of this housing crisis)?

Anonymous said...

Nice try. Ask a question so that the only possible answer justifies your view point. If years of watching FOX and CBC have taught me anything it was this exact way of argumentation. I was referring to FN as a whole and not solely Attawapiskat.

Rather than gripe, whine and point fingers I try to do something about it...I had the privilege of working with many FN, Inuit and Metis youth in 3 provinces and 2 territories. Are they all living perfect lives? Of course not, but then what segment of the population has a 100% success rate? What I did see though, were many who went on to college and university or who through sheer grit and determination, made their lives better. I say this not to take any credit for myself. But rather than whine and complain THEY put in EFFORT and determination rather than whine about money, acts civil disobedience, how they were "victims" or what government was in power at the time either federally or provincially.

I continue to be in touch with many of them to this day. I know the things I have written about because THEY have told me.

thwap said...

Nice try.

"This story has been all over the news for the past God knows how long."

"This story" would presumably refer to the story that I'm focused on, which is the housing crisis in Attawapiskat.

Which, to remind everybody, is about how they've been unable to get the federal government to do the work that is required for them to get new, decent housing.

The community of Attawapiskat has tried to shame harper into action and harper has responded by using it as a chance to smear the FN and strip them of their sovereignty.

Long story short: harper is the last in a long line of Canadian PMs to condemn these people to squalor and he's doubling down on his assholedom when the FN finally declare "enough is enough."

THAT is what I'm talking about here. You appear to want to talk in meaningless generalities to deflect attention from harper's assholedom because you're a partisan hack.

Tell me something WWU. If there was a news story about the trial of a vicious serial killer, would you respond to it with a tirade about how most people aren't serial killers or serial killers' victims?

If you are watching a story about scientists working at defeating a rare, but deadly disease, do you start complaining about how the story is portraying everybody as a victim of this disease and blah, blah, blah?

Because that's what you're doing here. This is a very clear story, with very definite borders. It is about a shameful housing crisis and harper's machiavellian exploitation of it.

If you want to say something relevant to THIS story, by all means do so. But I'm under no obligation to publish your trite observations on FN in general. Especially when I think your reason for typing them is to distract attention from the appalling behaviour of your preferred political party.

Anonymous said...

Sorry. I try to look at the bigger picture and not focus on one particular story. Why you assume the CP is my preferred political party is rather strange. I DON"T vote for them. I DON"T donate to them. Please stop trying to stuff my views into a box.

You try to paint me as an outsider who has idea of the FN reality. Believe me, I have seen more horrific crap than I hope you ever do in 10 lifetimes.

Sorry, stories about my students' successes ARE NOT "trite observations."

thwap said...


What you are doing here is attempting to distract attention from this crisis.

Either that or you're stupid.

I've had explained in great detail why your yammerings about unrelated topics in the comments section of my post on Attawapiskat is ridiculous.

I will repeat myself one last time.

Attawapiskat is the home of this particular First Nation. It is what they have accepted as theirs in return for recognizing the settlers' rights to pretty much everything else.

And even in this, their sovereignty is limited by the impositions of the Indian Act.

Under the Indian Act it is the federal government's responsibility for housing in this community. Under the Indian Act, successive Canadian governments have evaded their responsibilities.

The people of Attawapiskat declared an emergency out of frustration with their plight.

harper, who believes that the FN should be assimilated, has decided to turn the tables on the people of Attawapiskat and pretend that the crisis is their fault and use this lie as an excuse to erode their sovereignty even more.

I believe that the FN as a people are not going to take this and that harper has pushed these people to the wall and they have no other choice but to fight back and to fight back hard.

You reply to this with complaints about how FN are being portrayed as victims, that you're sick of this story, and that you know of students who have worked hard and made something of themselves.

This has NOTHING to do with the federal governments evasions of its responsibilities under the Indian Act.

It has NOTHING to do with harper's attempts to rob the FN of their autonomy.

It has nothing to do with the injustice and misery being inflicted upon the people of Attawapiskat and elsewhere.

Finally, it is fundamentally dishonest.

It is simply not the case that the FN can just pull themselves up by their own boot-straps.

Earlier you mentioned the successful FN community at Fort McKay. I had no idea where that was and assumed it was somewhere near Mount MacKay in Thunder Bay and that they'd just had some inadvertent luck or something. Turns out this is a FN community that has embraced the Alberta Tar Sands project (which is located nearby).

That's pretty ridiculous WWU. Insisting that all FN should emulate the people of Fort MacKay FN and embrace the ecologically destructive mega-project next door, even if other nearby FNs suffer rising rates of cancers and other diseases and a devastated environment.

Sorry if you don't like being labelled as a Conservative supporter, but given your earlier gushing about harper's successes and the Conservative Party's successes in Alberta, I assumed you were a shill.

And, actually, stories about your supposed students' supposed successes is actually rather trite. The FN people have been traumatized for generations by a sick system and they have a lot of healing that they need to do. Your simplistic (and dishonest) exhortations that they simply work hard and fit in to the rest of Canadian society aren't going to help them.

On top of their other problems there is a lot of discrimination against them. They have one of the lowest labour force participation rates in Canada, but even with this low percentage in the labour force, they have the highest rates of unemployment.

This means that even though only a relatively small number of FN individuals are looking for work, the wider society won't hire them. Imagine what their unemployment rate would be if those who'd given up on the labour market came back in!

Anonymous said...

Thank you for that fine analysis of the challenges facing FN people. I don't see why you have a hissy fit over my suggestion that this particular FN look others that have succeeded to learn from their experiences. Yes it is ridiculous for this FN to try to replicate the successes of others?

And no, I am not trying to distract from the issue although it would appear I've certainly distracted you. As I stated previously, much of what hear in the media is negative. That is my opinion. It's not that difficult of a concept. Disagree with it, fine. It's a free country. There you go launching in to some long-winded spiel....please save me the lecture. Believe me, I know the issues they face. I lived on MANY reserves, so please, lose your pompous, condescending attitude.

Just because you disagree with you does not mean I am wrong. How about let's find workable solutions rather than wasting time going off about "the Kanadian Konservative Klan."

At least I've tried to do what I can to help tackle the issues they face and yes, there are many. Speaking of yammering, it would appear that you've done a fair share of it yourself given the length of your previous comment. I am out to look for solutions. You appear to want to just use this issue to voice your frustrations with Harper. But honestly, ask yourself, what are YOU doing about this issue other than running your mouth and using cuss words? What is your plan? What would you like to see done? Will you even answer this or simply come back at me with more attitude?? I want to see this issue dealt with, believe me. Ranting on about a politician is the coward's way out. I can teach my 8 year old to do that for crying out loud.

thwap said...


The lecture was intended for your benefit. Because you say stupid things you appeared to need it.

I won't waste my time trying to educate you. And I pity anyone who many have had you for a teacher since you're clearly incapable of placing things in their proper context and of making intelligent, rational connections.

As for your heroic deeds compared to my useless typing, ... fuck off.

This is a blog. I type something everyday as a writing exercise. What I do, or don't do, in the 3-d world is an entirely different matter. I don't need to establish my bona fides to a dunce such as yourself.

Anonymous said...

Waah! Swearing and cursing....honestly, is that the best you can do? You seem to be able to dish it out but you can't take it. And your little jibes there about my professional career, PLEASE. You seem to be incapable of realizing that in the "3-d world" there are differing opinions. Sorry but I don't feel the need to drop the "f" bomb just because I disagree with someone.

I wouldn't call my deeds "heroic", I just like to get involved and DO what I can rather than just pissing and moaning about a particular situation.

thwap said...


This coming from a guy who threatened me with violence.

You're right WWU, those lazy fuckers at Attawapiskat should just stop their whining, get off their fat asses and learn a fucking trade, right?

"But I didn't say that!" wails WWU, either out of sheer dishonesty or because he's honestly too stupid to know that's precisely what he's saying. And then he throws in a couple of harpercon lies about what the Indians did with the money we lavished on them and that's another job well done, right stoops?

Screw off.

Anonymous said...

Hey you brought it on bring my family in to this and you'll have a shit storm you won't believe come down on your head.

As for your second paragraph. Nice sarcasm. I'm sure certain segments of the population would really appreciate that little gem. That is not "precisely what [I'm] saying." Make your own argument. DO NOT twist my words to draw insinuations to fit in to your way of thinking or put words in my mouth.

You think you have a monopoly on truth. Grow up. You just curse in swear. Hey but I'm just some right wing Con. Whatever. Rather than trying to bully my way through an argument and assume I know everything I actually talk to FN people. I'm curious to know what one of my former students has to say about his issue? Shall we wait and hear an FN perspective rather than just two white guys arguing about it? No. Let me guess. You have such a psychotic urge to be correct and have the last say, that you will simply dismiss this.

I find your tone offensive. Please, I'm assuming you went on to higher education. But is your bag of talking points so shallow that you have to resort to "screw off" when it runs out. Do yourself a favour and request a tuition refund. Please.

"Screw off." Seriously, is that the best you can do? Your anger is becoming apparent so you are letting me control how you feel, which I find interesting considering how much of a Type A personality you seem to be.

thwap said...


"Your anger is becoming apparent so you are letting me control how you feel"

This from a shit-head who flies off the handle into a violent rage because you stupidly interpret "Do you teach your kids to lie?" as somehow being an insult to your kids.

"DO NOT twist my words to draw insinuations to fit in to your way of thinking or put words in my mouth."

Sorry champ. You're either lying or you're irredeemably stupid. Either way, I can't accommodate you.

You know, for a guy who's out there heroically saving the FN from themselves so much, you seem to have an inordinate amount of time to troll around dropping turds of stupidity and lies on other people's blogs.

Just saying.

Anonymous said...

"... those lazy fuckers at Attawapiskat should just stop their whining, get off their fat asses and learn a fucking trade..."

Never said that.

"You know, for a guy who's out there heroically saving the FN from themselves..."

Um, ok. As a guy who just rails hysterically against the government, I can see you're accomplishing a great deal. As an FN person, I find this comment despicable. Normally I don't bring this up in debate as its not necessarily all that important. Way to go shit just offended a vast segment of society. Nice one.

"You seem to have an inordinate amount of time to troll around dropping turds of stupidity and lies on other people's blogs." Could you grab a keep using the same words.....turds....stupidity.....stupid....shit head. Try diversifying. But really, its okay if that is the best you can one's one's judging.....

Sorry buddy but if this is the best you can do......I grew up defending myself against insults physically and verbally all my life. I can go all night.....and I haven't even warmed up yet.

thwap said...

Good night WWU. I hope you take the hint and fuck-off.

Anonymous said...

Why, did I hurt your feelings?


Pompous little prick!

thwap said...


If you want to do the shtick of "I'm the reasonable person to your rage-filled, spittle-flecked ravings" it would behoove you to maintain the persona throughout. Don't start calling your opponent a "pompous little prick!" and etc., because it shows that you're a hypocrite.

So, earlier you called ours a discussion between two white guys. Now you're telling me you're FN.

Either you were lying then, or you're lying now.

You lie a lot in any case so this whole thing is an exercise in futility.

But assuming you're really FN, that would change a lot of my thoughts about your argument.

If you're really FN then your response to the federal governments shameful neglect of housing and cynical power grab at Attawapiskat, of accusing the people of Attawapiskat of being lazy whiners who should try to better themselves, isn't based on racism, but on stupidity.

Everything you've typed (aside from your lies about being white) wouldn't be racist, but genuine heartfelt advice from a moron.

There are stupid people everywhere, so there's no reason why a FN individual can't be a dumb-ass, harper-loving stooge.

Either that or you're one of those sleazy sell-outs that some FN activists and traditionalists talks about from time to time.

Oh, and don't try to paint my dismissal of you as my being so close-minded that I think I know better than even a FN how to help the FN.

You have said that the people of Attawpiskat should try to emulate the actions of other FN who have gone to college or university, worked hard, and embraced things like the Tar Sands project and etc., rather than just whine about their problems.

You've said that again and again as if you know for a fact that the people of Attawapiskat have never tried to work hard and better themselves.

And you've said that again and again when the clear fact is that the housing crisis is entirely the fault of federal government mismanagement and neglect. So if you're really FN that doesn't change the fact that I'm right and you're wrong.

As I've said, you lie all the damned time and you're a prick too.

thwap said...


It's also a little rich, your constantly telling the people of Attawapiskat to stop whining and to work hard and get an education, given the fact that this same community tried unsuccessfully for years and years to get a new school for their children and the federal government ignored them.

You really are a fucking asshole.

Anonymous said...

"There are stupid people everywhere, so there's no reason why a FN individual can't be a dumb-ass, harper-loving stooge."

Thanks.......real open-minded of you.

Ass hole.

thwap said...

A not-so-great man once said:

"Why, did I hurt your feelings? Waah! Pompous little prick!"

Anonymous said...

Cute. Thank you for condoning hate against FN people.

thwap said...

So! The eternal bullshit artist strikes again 'eh?

YOU are the one expressing hatred against FN people.

I think I should point out: I'm smarter than you. Your rhetorical twists are all embarrassingly transparent.

You lie all the time and you have called the people of Attawapiskat lazy whiners.

What is at your core man? Something rotten.

Anonymous said...

Ya....I'm racist against my own people Ya THAT must be it.

There are stupid people everywhere, so there's no reason why a FN individual can't be a dumb-ass, harper-loving stooge."

YOU said it...not me.

thwap said...

I know I said it. It's true. But I don't even know that you're FN because you lie all the fucking time.

But whatever.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, there is much you don't know. Thanks for being honest at least.

"There are stupid people everywhere, so there's no reason why a FN individual can't be a dumb-ass, harper-loving stooge."

But yeah, you're right "whatever"...because it sounds all good to appropriate Native issues to spew childish names at a leader. But well, if an Indian happens to disagree with you well, they are just too stupid for their own good.

Caput tuum in anus est.

thwap said...

You're the piece of shit who sides with harper against the people of Attawapiskat.

I'm glad that I decided to engage the right-winger in this commentary. As usual, once your kind tries to go beyond empty phrases into actual arguments, you end up disgracing yourselves.

I'm confident that anyone who reads this exchange will see that I've given you plenty of opportunity to speak your mind. The thing is, you've embarrassed yourself enough and you're only repeating your stupidity now.

I won't be publishing any of your subsequent efforts. Go and troll somewhere else.